Cohesive

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Donnerstag, 11. Mai 2017, 03:03

HKIII 4035 11 turn single layer YY

Hello,
I have wound this motor for a 3d heli pilot. It is a 1.5mm single layer, and will be terminated as a parallel wye, essentially 2 three tooth wye motors in parallel. I wonder as compared to the double layer 5+6 YY it will perform. The dual layer shows a lower winding factor but also a lower 1st harmonic in it's BEMF. So I'm curious which of the 2 would likely be the most efficient? In this case I also wonder if max efficiency is the win all. If I generated a little more heat but made more torque for hard maneuvers in the process would it be better? I have my own ideas but instead of going on those alone I'm curious what others have experienced,their knowledge, and so on. Please share your thoughts.

Thank you
Hubert :rose:
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Cohesive

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Freitag, 12. Mai 2017, 05:49

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Freitag, 12. Mai 2017, 21:29

Hello Hubert,

for true you need a test with the same statorplates and double layer wind. And for true you need the real condition. How are the duration amps and how the peek amps. For heli use i think with this shape of plates your singellayer wind will be better . To comare you need to wind the double layer with the same kv ,so maybee one turn moore on each statortooth and possible lower resistance with the single layer motor (one or two urn less for the wind) . With the original statorshape it is no quest.
Very clean and profesionel wind .

Happy Amps Christian

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Freitag, 12. Mai 2017, 23:04

Thank you,
Awfully foolish of me to have not utilized the extra space allotted by winding it in a single layer and used 1.6mm instead. I do have an identical stator so I can wind it in a dl for the same kv and let the pilot test it for comparison and send me back his logs. I guess he will need to do the same 3d maneuvers on both motors with fully charged batteries. The next thing I think of with this single layer is good heat dissipation and thermal conductivity between the overlapping coils, so I searched for an appropriate electrical resin. One with low viscosity, to get in between , thermal conductivity, and heat class. Scotchcast 265 1 part electrical resin from 3m seems to be very appropriate in all aspects. Very expensive at 1200.00 usd for 55 pounds (24.9 kg). It is a powder that can be mixed with acetone. U dip the wound stator or preformed coils in it then let the acetone flash away. Then it will cure in an oven for 20 min at 350*F. This is a great material for pre forming self supported coils also. It is professional grade.

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/22591….pdf?fn=265.pdf
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Samstag, 13. Mai 2017, 22:44

Hi Hubert,

do ypu know this site , http://www.tglobalthermal.com/thermal-in…WJxBxoCCDPw_wcB , maybee they have some interesting resion for your project.

Some thought : for cooling you need to contact the end side of the coil with a good heat sucking part that can self good cooled. Give it a closer look to get this parts close . To keep the coilside cool will suck the heat out of the slot. The small space because of the thinner wire dia is good for Airflow . Possible to instruct the heli pilot to look for a clean airflow that will not change the direction when the heli fly faster.

And note , the current best full size electric airplane motor from the Siemens Company has the same coil SPS system , has Hallbach Array magnet system and liquid direct wire contact cooling . With such, a motor run with three time of the current coverage that aircooled motor can stay.

Happy Amps Christian

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Dienstag, 16. Mai 2017, 02:09

Hi Hubert,

do ypu know this site , http://www.tglobalthermal.com/thermal-in…WJxBxoCCDPw_wcB , maybee they have some interesting resion for your project.

Some thought : for cooling you need to contact the end side of the coil with a good heat sucking part that can self good cooled. Give it a closer look to get this parts close . To keep the coilside cool will suck the heat out of the slot. The small space because of the thinner wire dia is good for Airflow . Possible to instruct the heli pilot to look for a clean airflow that will not change the direction when the heli fly faster.

And note , the current best full size electric airplane motor from the Siemens Company has the same coil SPS system , has Hallbach Array magnet system and liquid direct wire contact cooling . With such, a motor run with three time of the current coverage that aircooled motor can stay.

Happy Amps Christian


I've started to look at some of their thermally conductive gels. Their thermal conductivities rate much better than the 3m material but their viscosities are 3 times higher. The 3m materials viscosity in its native form is about that of water. Mixed with acetone I'd suspect it may be even less. I would think to really get in between the wires the lower the centipoise number the better. Have you a vacuum setup you use?
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Cohesive

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Donnerstag, 18. Mai 2017, 03:31

Hi Chris,
Because of the way they are made it appears finding a really good thermally conductive epoxy or encapsulation material that has low viscosity and is translucent/transparent in appearance is virtually impossible. Liquid cooling would still require some kind of re-circulatory chilling system. No? Compressed gas a solenoid/valve , thermistor, and a small brain may be even simpler for such extreme cooling ideas.
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Donnerstag, 18. Mai 2017, 05:03

Read this interesting take on the TC opaque potting epoxies. Moving away from VIP. The other thing is powder coat the stator in a fluid bed vs. using the insulation paper give more room for wire. Many improvements can be made on what has become common practice among hobby hand winders.

http://motorsolver.com/mfg-services/stator-encapsulation/
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Donnerstag, 15. Juni 2017, 23:15

To use a material that has an exceptional thermal conductivity rating will require some type of VIP process because of their higher poise. I'm trying to conceive some type of DIY setup but don't have any ideas that seem feasible. If anyone has done this type of VIP process at home the details are welcomed here. In the meantime I used a trickle method if you will. I used a laminating epoxy that was thinned with acetone to lower it's poise. Once it was applied and the acetone flashed away I cured it in the oven for 30 min at approximately 200*f or 93*c. It seems to have had a good capillary action to get in between the windings. It was applied sparingly to avoid excess which would only increase it's tendency as an insulator
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Freitag, 16. Juni 2017, 17:40

Hi Hubert,
that's a real clean worke .
We try Spiritus Alkohol to thinning epoxy but only to paint balsa wood. The thin epoxy makes a hard balsasurface. For coilgluing i use most Araldite epoxy and heat it up,for curring to 100 degree celsius. With the heat it becomes thin like water and fills the gaps.And i use the vacuum pot to get all air out. I have an old Leibold vacuum compresor that still worke .

Happy Amps Christian

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Sonntag, 18. Juni 2017, 00:50

Thanks. Hopefully one day from the modeler Ill hear how it runs in his model since its done and leaving me today. :w It runs good here on the bench. The Kv came out to be 518. Bemf was 3.07 +/- .01 Vrms on all phases @2250 rpm

Spiritus Alcohol....here our equivalent is 190 proof everclear. To buy this in my state you must purchase it at the Alcoholic Beverage Commision. The "ABC" store only open mon thru saturday and always closes a 9p.m. EST. A few shots of this and a model will probably be the furthest thing from ones mind :dumm:
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