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Montag, 11. Februar 2019, 22:56

Hi Christian,

It appears Norbert Wohner from Siemens filled for a ferrofluid motor patent in 2008 but it wasn't granted. :shy:
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.…080197718A1.pdf

262

Dienstag, 12. Februar 2019, 08:12

Why would a patent not be granted?

263

Dienstag, 12. Februar 2019, 15:50

- when a patent is not a real invention but state of the art
- when opposition proceeding was successful
- when the fees are not paid

264

Dienstag, 12. Februar 2019, 18:30

Gruss
Thomas
🖖

Vielleicht ist Wissen doch nicht die Antwort auf alles


265

Mittwoch, 13. Februar 2019, 19:56


It's here so now we can silence any conjecture. RS2205. Shall we Christian?
Lets do it!


Regards
Hubert

266

Mittwoch, 13. Februar 2019, 22:00

Que pasa Christian?
Are you ready to see if this stuff works and the effect on the heat dissipation and effect on the magnetic circuit? Were at it now..... you see its like liquid gold. That over 145 dollars of material in these two small bottles. I'm attempting to get only the flux rings and pm's from Steve. Ill put the flux rings inconnel or 304 stainless maybe CF . If you get a line on laminated pm's let me get it. I can pay the price. This work isn't for market it's for us in our own models. I also have sourced a suitable wedge halbach array. I think mine will be approx. 64mm and I will use your air coils so we can compare you newer halbach vision to a more conventional one. I'm all in.

Regards Hermano,
Hubert

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von »Cohesive« (13. Februar 2019, 22:06)


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Donnerstag, 14. Februar 2019, 08:15

Hi,
there are some motor designs where you can test this fluide. Do you want to place it to make the magnetic flux adjustable or moore like in the Siemens Patent to get a liqude stator iron core., just make a slotless motor with coil in the airgap and ad the ferrofluide to get iron.To place it in the airgap to become better than air , i think is only good for very slow rpm. What do you want to test first ?

Happy Amps Christian

268

Donnerstag, 14. Februar 2019, 11:39

If the magnets and teeth are made flush with potting or filler material the viscous windage will be significantly reduced in the gap. With its low Mu number it wont respond like real iron or silicon steel in its place. That's deductible without a test. I disagree with the idea that it will significantly reduce rpm but If it does from windage the Io would go up unless there was some improvement in the magnetic circuit that lowered the synchronous speed. If the io went up efficiency is lost unless the stall torque is increased by the fluid. If it increases the io but reduces operational temps by more than 30% is it a win.

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von »Cohesive« (14. Februar 2019, 11:47)


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Donnerstag, 14. Februar 2019, 13:05

chx
youve seen the link he posted, these ebike people are pouring the stuff into the arigap of a normal motor.
He seem to plan to fill the airgap and stuff stays in there on its own and conducts rotor and stator at least thermally if not magnetically significant.
"How can we win when fools can be kings" Muse

270

Donnerstag, 14. Februar 2019, 18:58

And so you see you are here for what? You have nothing in common with the facts. Things get very confusing for you if you come on on the ass of thing or become the ass in things. Christian already knows through me directly that companies like JBL have tested the harmonic dampening of ferrofluid in linear motors years ago. I have already passed him IEEE papers on the work in rotating machines that also show promise long ago. What do you know about me and him? I also consider the fact as an engineer that frequency and amplitude of frequency is what effect loss in the iron magnets etc. I also realize that the sidebands...harmonics.... add to those losses. Therefore anything that will dampen those harmonics should give me better efficiency in the core and the rotor so you test it. If it does a better job of transferring heat that is more of a plus. You really shouldn't speak here if it is going to be of a negative nature and fundamentally wrong about the subject at hand, or me as if I'm the subject, and not here.Nor what I'm doing. Are you nuts? It's really rude and disrespectful. Not to mention it's rather bold seeing Christian and I speak regularly away from the forums. Professionally and as friends. We don't need your assistance this way. You see the materials are all at my hand. Unless you have tested the ferrofluid and have something to offer outside of negativity or wrong personally about me and where my information is based on please be quiet. If I cannot share the actual test that I am doing without your negative post. I will end it here.It does not keep me from knowing. You are welcomed at any time to take over here and show us the result of using the fluid or any of the other material by any means you so choose.I will certainly know what it does in a short time. But I will not accept this here. I will stand aside and watch with my mouth closed what you do with any of this to not have to rely on an damn ebike companies testimonial ad ding dong.

Thank
You.

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 4 mal editiert, zuletzt von »Cohesive« (14. Februar 2019, 19:28)


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Donnerstag, 14. Februar 2019, 20:44

chx asked if you plan to mod the motor concept and to what extend, i answered what seems to be your proposal and how the ebikers use this yet.
If you feel a short description of the concept negative despite it only summarizes the here available Infos of the Concept..

Closed Magnet gaps, closed slots, Ferrofluid into the airgap.
isnt that your proposal?
"How can we win when fools can be kings" Muse

272

Donnerstag, 14. Februar 2019, 23:11

My concerns at your posting and its value has been fully pointed out. Christian is fully aware of what I'm doing what actually inspires it and the methodology in which it will be carried out which is not what you say. Because you don't know me, my abilities,what I actually intend to do, or anything else that has to do with me . Who are you to report it anyway? I don't need you to speak for me. It's reaching and rude. I do not appreciate it and I've said what the result will be. You do what you like. Did you not read that already? Or do you insist? I don't know you and even if I did why would I need you to speak for me like I'm not here. It makes no sense. Please just don't do it and if you don't believe in what is going on here you do not have to participate in any way shape or form. Negativity blocks divine inspiration so please just don't do it here. U have already likened it to snake oil which is incorrect but noted. If you have not tested it what is your point here? All it does for me is annoy me and stand in the way of progress or a fruitful discussion about it. The snake oil discussion is a very short one. Need you say more? Ebikes are not where I gather my information, Ferrofluid is proven in many applications and I have it here to really test that's the point. You should return to rc groups.


Good day to you.
Hubert

273

Freitag, 15. Februar 2019, 00:40

From sound reinforcement studies. And understand a speaker is a linear motor that withstands a lot of load variance and usually has to attempt to dissipate heat in an enclosed cavity.

Ferrofluid is roughly 5 times more thermally conductive than the air it displaces from the gap. The fluid provides a much lower thermal resistance between the coil and pole/top plate, lowering the voice coil operating temperature under both transient and steady state conditions. This increases power handling capabilities.

When the voice coil is displaced in the radial direction in the gap, a restoring force is obtained which is proportional to the displacement. Although this force is a fraction of that provided by the suspension, it is still enough to influence the centering of the moving coil. This force constant is given by:
k = 2Ms Hm ht/r N/m

where:
Ms = saturation magnetization in tesla
Hm = maximum field strength in the gap in ampere meter
h = height of fluid in the gap in meter
t = width of the gap in meter
r = radius of the gap in meter

Harmonic distortion and spectral contamination caused by radial and rocking modes of the voice coil is reduced due to the centering force of the fluid upon the voice coil. Ferrofluid in the gap also creates a seal, or liquid “O” ring around the coil which eliminates air modulation noise in the gap, particularly within the piston band.

A 1″ (25.4 mm) voice coil driver with ferrofluid can achieve the same power handling as equivalent sized drivers which utilize 1.5″ (38.1 mm) or 2″ (50.8 mm) diameter coils. The cost savings from the smaller magnet/coil more than offset the ferrofluid cost. The weight reduction may also be attractive in many applications.

Academic papers
https://www.researchgate.net/publication…l_process_model
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-666X/9/9/457
https://www.researchgate.net/publication…trical_machines
http://magneticliquid.narod.ru/autority/430.pdf
https://dokumente.unibw.de/pub/bscw.cgi/…%20Gerling).pdf


The attachments come from Germany! Here is the summary from their real test.

"The results of the measurements both for linear and rotating electric machines promise a high relevance of ferro fluid application for building more efficient electric motors in the future. For technical applications, a standardization of ferro fluids is desirable. Some technological effort is necessary to guarantee a reliable enclosement of the fluids. Innovative fluids, e.g. based on cobalt particles with a higher saturation magnetizationand lower viscosity as well as excellent stability will be very promising."

~S. Engelmann, A. Nethe, Th. Scholz, H.-D. Stahlmann
Brandenburgische Technische Universita¨t Cottbus, Lehrstuhl Theoretische Elektrotechnik und Prozessmodelle,
PO Box 101344, 03013 Cottbus, Germany
Available online 3 March2005~

So Mr. we have nothing in common and you please contact these electrical doctorates vs. harassing me and you tell them it is snake oil along with the results from their academic test and it doesn't work. Apparently these are ebike citations? I see you know exactly what you are talking about. Please continue. :)

In the meantime here is more suggested reading on the subject. See if you can expand your mind away from trivial assertions about me you know nothing about.

Further reading
A. Nethe, Th. Scholz, H.-D. Stahlmann, vol. 1, 2003, part 1,
351.
A. Nethe, Th. Scholz, H.-D. Stahlmann, Magnetohydrodynamics
3 (2001) 312.
A. Nethe, Th. Scholz, H.-D. Stahlmann, IEEE Trans.
Magn. 38 (2) (2002) 1177.

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 6 mal editiert, zuletzt von »Cohesive« (15. Februar 2019, 00:51)


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Freitag, 15. Februar 2019, 02:09

was talking to chx so whatever..

Snake oil is something that is sold E$$pen$iv€ and praised to solve EVERYTHING in EVERY application and by just using without special precautions one most likely will get disappointed.
This perfect describes my findings of folks pouring stuff into the airgap of standard e-bike motors und you showing no sign of countermeasures against loosing that fluid e.g.
Linear motors are linear as name says, so the consequencies, as chx also indicated, of using in a fast turning rotary motor perhaps will be interesting.

This does not mean it was not a good solution and worthwhile in several cases with special precautions and modifications and that your test would not be interesting.


I recommend a review in terms of receiving thougths about critical aspects the engineers way.
Look at the last two pages here.
How much user posting?
How much ad hominem?
From wich user?
So wherers the best point to start working on improvements?
"How can we win when fools can be kings" Muse

275

Freitag, 15. Februar 2019, 02:35

Talking to Christian in my thread about what Im doing like Im not here is ad hominem and more just don't do it. He doesn't need it believe me and you can do it outside of here. Or you can just go away because of any post here useful what is your tally? Your baseless conjecture absent of any proof whatsoever wont be considered here over academic findings so do not waste your time. Im testing it based on their work so there is no help needed. Ill know all I want to without that or you talking to Chris about me in my thread. It will always be like this forever. You can go on and ill leave you to it and we will see how far you get with MY projects.

I have nothing else to say. You have the "ebike" citations ding dong. Carry on..... :shake:

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 2 mal editiert, zuletzt von »Cohesive« (15. Februar 2019, 02:42)


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Freitag, 15. Februar 2019, 03:05

>Talking to Christian in my thread about what Im doing
and you didnt want to await his answer here and maybe further explanation what his first post with the slow turning motors was about because..?
So this is not a space of discussion or questions, no dialoque but just a private blog. One way, riight?
ok fair enough.

>nothing else to say
agree with this point.
"How can we win when fools can be kings" Muse

277

Freitag, 15. Februar 2019, 03:30

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von »Cohesive« (15. Februar 2019, 03:45)


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Freitag, 15. Februar 2019, 03:45

i dont maintain private mails.

>You should just mind you business go back to rc groups
wont open an account on rcgroups just to have the same bs like here.
btw. im not following you, been here before BL mania started. You are a brand new account here.

>You have nothing to add technically significant here
forgot i told you what valve to use and how do shape the CO2 Flow, is that nothing?
Wait until your ferrofluid DUT turns into an oil damp spray unit and remember me and chx warning you ;)
Must be great to be in a team with you.

>or anyone want to hear
right, so in future as usual i will check for a brotzeit around the corner if want to chat with chx RL instead posting here.
"How can we win when fools can be kings" Muse

279

Freitag, 15. Februar 2019, 03:45



"The results of the measurements both for linear and rotating electric machines promise a high relevance of ferro fluid application for building more efficient electric motors in the future. For technical applications, a standardization of ferro fluids is desirable. Some technological effort is necessary to guarantee a reliable enclosement of the fluids. Innovative fluids, e.g. based on cobalt particles with a higher saturation magnetizationand lower viscosity as well as excellent stability will be very promising."

~S. Engelmann, A. Nethe, Th. Scholz, H.-D. Stahlmann
Brandenburgische Technische Universita¨t Cottbus, Lehrstuhl Theoretische Elektrotechnik und Prozessmodelle,
PO Box 101344, 03013 Cottbus, Germany
Available online 3 March2005~

Good luck.... :w

And no Im not using your suggestion after real test that show me the stator is cooled very well my way. Not to mention the orifice of the solenoid is not smaller that all the jets combined so you're wrong both ways. It works in the real world and your criteria is not met by the racers that use it effectively everyday in real life not your theory.Thank you but no I wont be using any ideas that came from you. And no Im not looking for your brand of help. No I'm not. God forbid you sit on your ass behind a keyboard running your mouth and get credit for anything I'm really doing here. Win lose or draw. NX express, NOS, IEEE, JBL, none of these people need your help. Why would I.

There's a better lane to drive in.

Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 2 mal editiert, zuletzt von »Cohesive« (15. Februar 2019, 03:54)


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Freitag, 15. Februar 2019, 03:52

so neu motors sell induction Motors... hope i dont need to explain the difference.
Think before you spill your wrath here.
However, good night and please share photos and result.
But wear a fine particle mask and eye protection.
"How can we win when fools can be kings" Muse